الموضوع: Interesting Dialogue
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قديم 01-07-2005, 10:54 AM
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Interesting Dialogue

تسلمت رسالة من السيد منيب الرحمن تتعلق بالعروض رقميا، وتراسلنا وكان هذا الحوار. والمرجو ممن له رأي بالموضوع أن يسهم به هنا.
هذه فرصة لإثبات جدوى هذا الأسلوب الرقمي لبحث موضوع عام في ثقافات مختلفة دون عوائق المصطلحات.




I received an email from Mr. Muneebur Rahman about numerical prosody. We exchanged further messages that formed this dialogue.
Those who have an opinion on the subject are requested to participate.
This is a chance to prove the use of this tool of numerical approach to discuss a common subject between various cultures without the barriers of terms.


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1

Dear sir,

I don't know Arabic but I wanted to know what you have written on five pages of your web site about Al-Biruni and Arud-al Hind. Is there any way to see those pages in English translation?

Regards
Muneeb ur Rahman

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2

Dear Sir

thanks for your concern

basically I proved that Al-Biruni mentioned that Arud-al Hind used the numbers 1 and 2 to express the same concept I used to describe the rhythm of poetry.

I wrote Arabic lines of poetry according to the mentioned Indian Arud.

Maybe we meet one day on Yahoo messenger.

For the time being the general approach for numerical prosody is described in English on:


http://www.arood.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=94


You are invited to participate on this forum.

And please have alook on :

http://www.geocities.com/khashan_kh/57-urdu.html

where I added numbers to the English text.

Best regards

Khashan

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3

Dear Khashan,

Thank you for replying my email with the explanation. I quickly browsed the links you mentioned. It seems you are proposing a universal metrical theory that could be applied to poetries of different languages including English which is considered a stress language and because of that fact people believe quantitative metrics doesn' work best for it. This si an area that is interesting. In fact many languages Greek, Sanskrit, Latin have used quantitatives meter. Well they are related. But how did Arabic meter come to be quanitative. Arabic is not related to languages mentioned earlier. This meter has worked for Arabic and also in a large number of languages that adopted Arabic meter. This meter has a sort of universality to it. I was interested in knowing how much al-Khalil was influenced by sanskrit metrics. Al-Biruni is the only person to have alluded to that proposition. Is it a coincidence? Is it because both meters are quanitative? Or did al-Khalil really base his theory on Indidan metrics. I don't know Arabic but when I saw mention of al-Biruni on your web site I thought you might be talking on the historical aspect of Arabic and Indian metrics.

Do you have any opinion on this? What is the general opinion about this among Arab scholars?

I am not a scholar, not even a poet. It's just for my own interest that once a while spend time deliberating on these issues. I work in the US and am basically form India.

Thank you for your time.
Muneeb

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4


Dear Muneeb ,
I appreciate your concentration on the this beautiful and delicate topic


Thank you for replying my email with the explanation. I quickly browsed the links you mentioned. It seems you are proposing a universal metrical theory that could be applied to poetries of different languages

What you read is more of a technique ( tool) than a theory, a technique that applies to all quantitative prosodies. Using abstract representation of figures, thus eliminating the barriers of terminology differences between languages.
However, the clarity of figure representation helped me formulate a theory about Arabic prosody.


including English which is considered a stress language and because of that fact people believe quantitative metrics doesn' work best for it. This is an area that is interesting

It is interesting.
Stress and quantitative metrics both refer to two types of rhythm, As there is a difference in vision of the same object due to difference in eye nature ( in humans or say between different animals) The same applies to rhythm hearing criteria , though the variation in rhythm perception between two cultures may be due to more complicated factors. Please see the following link to feel that.

http://www.everypoet.org/pffa/showth...threadid=16003



. In fact many languages Greek, Sanskrit, Latin have used quantitatives meter. Well they are related. But how did Arabic meter come to be quanitative. Arabic is not related to languages mentioned earlier. This meter has worked for Arabic and also in a large number of languages that adopted Arabic meter.

There are few types of prosodies ( less than five, as far as I know ). It is very probable to have two non related languages having the same meter basics.


This meter has a sort of universality to it. I was interested in knowing how much al-Khalil was influenced by sanskrit metrics. Al-Biruni is the only person to have alluded to that proposition. Is it a coincidence? Is it because both meters are quanitative? Or did al-Khalil really base his theory on Indidan metrics. I don't know Arabic but when I saw mention of al-Biruni on your web site I thought you might be talking on the historical aspect of Arabic and Indian metrics.

Do you have any opinion on this? What is the general opinion about this among Arab scholars?

Arab scholars almost unanimously believe that al-Khalil has initiated and completed this science in Arabic. There is evidence of his command of computations and permutations as well as music principles which enabled him to categorize Arabic "wazn" in 15 types "bahr".

I am not a scholar, not even a poet.

I think this is an asset for you, since specialized scholars usaually concentrate on details and it takes an effort for those who follow this approach to to have a panoramic vision.
It is easier for those who look from high outside the field to have a common vision that enables them to visualize the basics after which the comprehension of details become easy.


It's just for my own interest that once a while spend time
deliberating on these issues. I work in the US and am basically form India.
Thank you for your time.
Muneeb

You are welcome. I enjoyed this discussion. I encourage you to follow this interesting concern of yours.
Since this is a valuable discussion, I ask your permission to transfer it to the forum. I suggest to have further discussion there for the readers' benefit and probable participation by others from different cultures which will enrich the subject.

You are welcome

Khashan

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5


Dear Khashan,

Thank you for the detailed reply and encouragement. I won't mind if you publish my previous email in the forum.

I'll read your suggested links carefully and get back to you if any coments or questions.

Muneeb
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