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-   -   A promising step (http://www.arood.com/vb/showthread.php?t=4657)

05-26-2012 01:24 AM

A promising step
I hope Mr Anandajoti, The prominent Indian prosodist, will join our forum to discuss the details of the subject on


Any relevant comment in English is welcome.
I hope others concerned will join too, that this page will present numerical prosody on a larger and higher scale.
Those willing to register in the forum are welcome. That is achieved by sending a message to
The password will be sent once registration is finished

Relevant links in English





05-27-2012 06:14 PM

I left a request for Mr. Luke Prater on:

He sent the following comment:

Hi - you left a comment/link on my poetry site (I use a lot of meter etc). I couldn't find a way to comment on your Google site - but I think the project is excellent. I have one issue with what you say there though: that Western/English meter (which, as you say, is stress-based) doesn't successfully emulate the Greco-Roman quantitive (short-long) metrical system. In many cases, in fact it does. The rhythm of using the most common syllabic feet - iambs (di-DUM) and trochees (DUM-di) - (but not the trisyllabic feet anapaests (di-di-DUM) and dactyls (DUM-di-di) as all three stresses are evenly weighted in terms of rhythm, like triplets in music), are for all intents and purposes also short-LONG and LONG-short, respectively. This is because the rhythm of iambs and trochees is not duple (2/4 in music), but it's of-set, like a horse galloping. What makes a stressed syllable feel stressed? Not just but saying it out louder. The stressed syllable is longer, or has more space after it. Musically, the unstressed syllable is the upbeat, it's half-swallowed, and we are in a triplet rhythm still, NOT a duple one. So an iamb is actually di-DUM-(rest), di-DUM-(rest), rather than di-DUM, di-DUM. In many cases the (rest) will be a continuation of the stressed DUM syllable. So it either feels, or actually is, longer. Musically, rhythmically. It is very close to Classical quantitive meter. Agreed, trisyllabic feet that fill all three beats cannot be. And certainly tetrasyllabic feet, but these are not used anymore except for novelty's sake.

Thus, iambs and trochees feel quantitive and iambs are overwhelmingly the most used metrical foot in Western poetry, where feet are still used.

Does this make any sense?

Interesting topic!


Luke Prater

(( )) 05-29-2012 06:30 AM

It does make sense Mr. Prater. Many thanks

05-29-2012 12:15 PM


(( )) ( 56006)
It does make sense Mr. Prater. Many thanks

Dear Ust. Ibaa
This is the first time I read that iambic and trochee are quantitative.
You feel the basically quantitative Arabic and the stress based English meters .
1- Does Mr Luke when he speaks of the quantitative nature of iambs and trochees mean quantitative as we feel it in Arabic, or some sort of quantitative that we may not feel. Do you feel quantitative?

2- It is to be noted that he differentiated between iambs = 1 2 and trochees 2 1 on one hand and pyrrhic = 11 =(2) , spondees 2 2, anapests 1 1 2 =(2) 2 and dactylic 2 1 1 = 2 (2)

I used the Arabic symbol to bring to the awareness of the Arabic reader the role that numerical prosody reveals the similarities and analogies between seemingly two too far away meters.
Iambs = 12 ~ watid majmoo' , trochees = 21~ watid mafrroq both having the odd figure 1

All the other feet being even composed of twos ~ sababs lie within the description Arabic khabab

Mr. Lukes description :

but not the trisyllabic feet anapaests (di-di-DUM) and dactyls (DUM-di-di) as all three stresses are evenly weighted in terms of rhythm

Is very profound and important.

Evenly weighted in terms of rhythm attadaffoq alkhababi in Arabic

That he considers 1 1 2 as trisyllabic , in contrast to Arabic khabab were they are considered (2) 2 just two syllables is a matter of idiom that does not affect the essence .

As if English has two parts :
A- Iambic and trochaic overlapping to a crtain degree with quantitative meter like Latin and Arabic
B- The rest overlapping to a certai degree with syllabic meter like French.

How encouraging is numerical prosody to enable one to talk of the meter of languages he does not know.


Please listen to these at the end of the link :


Examples of various meter sound samples

sample of how 1/4 meter (helpinfo) sounds in a tempo of 90bpm.
sample of how 2/4 meter (helpinfo) sounds in a tempo of 90bpm.
sample of how 3/4 meter (helpinfo) sounds in a tempo of 90bpm.
sample of how 4/4 meter (helpinfo) sounds in a tempo of 90bpm.
sample of how 5/8 meter (helpinfo) sounds in a tempo of 120bpm.

01:02 PM.

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